Hostages in Iran

[tigermatty]

Been a while since we had a poll on the forum!

[Joe]

This isn't a poll though! ? ?

[tigermatty]

I think it posted the initial message whilst I was concocting the poll...

[Woody]

At least it's a real reason for some conflict rather than the load of bollocks going on in Iraq.

[SHANDY LOVE MACHINE]

Just to make sure I think we should load our nuclear warheads up with chemical and biological weapons.

Either that or get President Aminajahead and Bush in a celebrity boxing comp, like Ricky Gervais and Grant Bovey did.

[RegCubit]

Quite simple, lets get in there and get our people back, and f**k to anyone who gets upset about it, our people have been kidnapped by a backward muslim nation that thinks its tough, send in the Ghurkas., then they'll see whose tough.

[Tim]

Tolerant as ever, Reg. Well done!

Let's put this into perspective and see if there are any double standards here:

i) a handful of British soldiers are alleged to have trespassed into Iranian waters. There is no proof of this, yet they are captured and 'paraded' on television. There is an outcry.

ii) the leader of Iraq is suspected to have weapons of mass destruction. There is no proof of this, yet his country is invaded, leading to the death of hundreds of thousands civilians. He is captured and 'paraded' on television. There is no outcry.

iii) hundreds of suspected terrorists (many British citizens) are captured and held in an illegal detention camp, Guantanamo Bay. There is no proof of them having done anything wrong (most have not even been charged with committing any crime), yet they are frequently 'paraded' on television in their cages, wearing chains, manacles, hoods and orange jump suits. There is no outcry.

iii) (and this'll test your memories!) the Belgrano is spotted steaming AWAY from British waters in 1982. It is attacked and sunk, leading to the loss of lives of hundreds or Argentine sailors. There is no outcry.

I hope the British soldiers are returned safely and I agree Iran are manipulating them for their own purposes, but my simple point is: if you believe in human rights, then surely you believe they must apply to all, not just us.

[Woody]

Nah just us!;)
(Only Joking Tim)

[RegCubit]

So Tim what about the Human Rights of the Kurds who were gassed by Saddam using a weapon of mass destruction?
We have Nuclear armed submarines, or do we? If you were an agressor to this country would you believe we had WMD, we've never used them, so have we got them?. Saddam used them, it is a fair assumption to make that he may have had more. The Belgrano ws in an exclusion zone, tough s**t, the only thing I ever agreed with Thatcher was her stance on the Falklands, if you don't like Britain so much why live here?

[bobcarolgees]

The belgrano was steaming away? Tough basically. We were in a war with Argentina at the time who knew exactly what they were getting involved in when they invaded the Falklands in the first place. You dont win wars by having a morale stance like yours. If we did we would be speaking German by now.

Perhaps there was no outcry about Saddam being paraded as ultimately he had killed thousands upon thousands in a totally unhumane way for years, including his own people.

As for Guantanamo Bay, you say they havent done anything wrong. What did you think they were captured for in the first place? I think you'll find it was fighting with the Taliban.

Everyone is entitled to their views but its ridiclous left wing rubbish that is making this country a total joke. Iran must be pissing themselves at the moment. Thatcher wasnt perfect by any stretch of the imagination, BUT she wouldnt and didn't accept anything like this.

[Woody]

This country is going to the dogs. And i'm not on about Spit, Bob.

[Tim]

Stirred up a bit of a hornets' nest here. Where to start?

Well, first of all, I don't hate this country. Where did I say I did?

Saddam gassing the Kurds? Evil. But who turned a blind eye to the atrocity at the time? And who sold him weapons?

Tough about the Belgrano? Maybe the Iranians think it's tough **** on our soldiers trespassing in their waters? Who's to say their views are less valid than ours?

Prisoners in Guantanamo fighting with the Taliban? Where is the proof? If there's proof, take them to court and punish them. Guantanamo has existed for more than five years now and only this week was the first prisoner convicted of any offence. Is this justice?

Look at the furore in Iran, when our soldiers have been captured. Imagine how much worse it would be if they had been throw in an open air cage, shackled and hooded - would we have allowed it?

Of course not, because it's inhumane. All I'm saying it why do we allow it to happen to some people, yet not to others. Where is the consistency?

I return to my original statement: don't human rights apply to all?

[SHANDY LOVE MACHINE]

don't human rights apply to all?

I agree it should, with the exception of the Welsh and David Elsey. In fact why don't we push Elsey out of a plane over Wales and see the carnage. Well we can't - have you ever seen anything that size get off the ground?

On a serious note Tim, if we did Nuke Wales on an Easterly wind day would we avoid the radioactive aftermath?

[Neil]

Isn't Elsey Welsh anyhow?

[tigermatty]

I have to say I agree with Tim about Guantanamo Bay here, it is a really dangerous stance to take to be able to imprison people for an unspecified length of time without trial, regardless of how they got there in the first place. If they are tried and found guilty then fair enough.

[SHANDY LOVE MACHINE]

Scrap Guantanamo Bay and send them to Wales. The ultimate deterrent.

[Tim]

Before we agree any plan to nuke Wales - or inflict Elsey on them - I'd like to hear what Taff thinks.

[RegCubit]

Human rights are great, tell it to the people who made the mistake of travelling by bus or tube to work, when some lunatic muslims decided to exercise their human rights and blow those people to kingdom come.
As for trespassing in Iranian waters, so far the Iranians have given three different positions two of which were in Iraqi waters. Glad to see they exercised their rights by protesting outside the Bristish embassey in Iran today, screaming "death to the British". They won't allow consular access to our troops, the reason obvious, once we know where they are we will simply go in and get them back, and that would be embarassing for the little mites.

[SHANDY LOVE MACHINE]

Seven wrongs don't make three rights

[DCD]

So tell me Shandy love machine what problem have you got the welsh then.

[SHANDY LOVE MACHINE]

None, I erm meant the Scottish, sorry not very good at erm spelling

[bobcarolgees]

Glad to see them back and safe


























We should still nuke Iran though :D

[Woody]

Especially now they are not there!

[Neil]

It was nice of Iran to give us a gift :D

[Woody]

Now let's send them a nice big easter gift of our own. In the shape of a couple of nukes!

[Neil]

Will they have little nukes as well as all part of the package and when they've all gone you get the feeling that the $8 Billion that they cost has left you a little underwhelmed and that most of it went on packaging?

[Woody]

They really should have spent more on research!:)

[DCD]

15 realeased and four killed in iraq the same day by a roadside bomb that was made in Iran it never ends .